The kids are getting soft
 

I have to work on these three teenagers of mine. We have had our share of tough times mind you and my kids are "more deprived" than the average teen (no cell phones or ipods, you want money-mow a lawn) but I have noticed lately that they are just not as prepared for when SHTF as I would like. I've been really tightening the belt here in order to devote more $$ to my preps lately and boy am I getting a whine fest. Seems the kids are having trouble getting used to Mom's new budget. "What's for dinner Mom? and please tell me its not rice or pasta again." and "But why can't we turn on the air conditioning?"(We live in FL.) are getting more common. My 16 year old son finally gave up on asking me for rides all over town and figured out how to use the public bus, or even (gasp) walk. Things that seem like pretty minor inconveniences to me are causing an "adjustment reaction" in the teens. Well, my news is get over it! Cry me a river.

I figure I'll toughen em' up now and then they'll be ready for whatever comes.
At the very least they'll have advanced prep for those Ramen every meal college days.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

riding bicycles is a good way to travel and get in shape

you know what we used to say in karate, the more you sweat in training the less you bleed in a fight

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

The whine now...... but they will see your wisdom later ....and they will thank there lucky stars they have you for a mom...


Day by day....what you do will make more sense to them... time is on your side on this one.


T

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

If my kids 7 and 9 whine at me enough to annoy me, esp over anything along the lines off turn off tv, practice piano, do your homework, help with chores-- if I get any guff about those things, then they know they are headed for a big lecture about:

DO YOU WANT TO BE LIKE THE AVERAGE FAT, STUPID AND WEAK SUBURBAN AMERICAN BRAT? NOT IN MY HOUSE!

I have been giving the lecture less and less. I'm down to about once every two months or so.

I like to remind them that times are getting tougher and the country is being invaded by lots of intelligent foreigners esp from Asia who are hungry and good at math. They know this is true.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Damn, you are a nag..lol

Speaking of the average American brat. I have noticed a very disturbing trend among young Parents. They are letting their kids run wild in public, they make no effort to discipline them and they are putting toddlers and small children on a equal level with adults. These children are going to be in real shock when they enter the real world and discover the Universe does not revolve around them.

I always tried to find a balance with my children. I was a soft Mother most of the time. If they crossed the line then I would morph into crazy Mom. A good Mother should be able to drop her children to their knees with one glance from across the room..

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

It appears some of my frugal seeds are sprouting. Senior prom is Saturday and usually the kids all go to dinner beforehand at a nice restaurant. This time the boyfriends can't afford it as gas costs ate up all their disposable income from part time jobs. My daughter suggested to all that they have a pot luck instead. The idea spread among her friends and now I am expecting 10 teens and counting for a pre-prom dinner. I told them this is their baby. They will be stringing Christmas lights in my backyard and turning it into a romantic outdoor eatery with card tables and flower arrangements from my garden. Suppose I'll have to put the chickens in their coop early that night.:D

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

AND WHO SAYS AMERICANS LACK CREATIVITY??

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

LOL, yeah, I'd think so.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Little Ant, what a great idea!!! Its nice of you to give the kids a place for dinner.

Don't worry about the Chickens. The kids will adapt. When my Kids were in school I used to take my pet possums to their show and tell. My kids survived ..

One of the fun things about my kids being grown now is we can talk from an adult perspective about their upbringing. Now I can see where we were right and where we went wrong from their perspective.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

yep there you go. a bunch of brats. plain and simple. its white people that have gone weak, lets be frank. I never see mexicans, asians, letting their kids act like that, and usually blacks are at least trying to keep their brats in check. white people are the only ones that think indiscipline is a good mode of parenting.

I am a white in case you hadnt guessed and I rather dont like it when I see our younglings get ruined like this. I am not a tyrant but I believe in discipline. I am a quarter Greek, peple from he Pelopennese where for all I know my ancestors could have been Spartans. Read about the "agoge" if you want to read about an "upbringing" that will curl your toes for how rigorous and harsh it was. My parents taught me about the Spartans and I taught mine. Fat weak and stupid are all unacceptable.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Hey we might be related. All my Mothers people were Spartan. I am familiar with the way ancient Spartans raised their children. To be quite honest I find modern Spartans rather odd. They are a breed unto themselves.:D
BTW, I just found out recently I own property in Sparta. Of course if I ever set foot in Greece I will be hit with 20 yrs of back taxes..

Speaking of racial differences I work with a mostly black staff. We discuss this a lot because our child rearing ideas are very similar. You are right. Most of the kids I see in public that are being raised this way are from upper white middle class families. These are the same parents who think they are the first generation to have kids.

I have mixed emotions on being overly strict with Kids. It depends on the child. Some children need it and some don't. Being over controlling can backfire. Its a fine line between discipline and breaking their spirit. You have to find that line with each child at each stage of their life.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

I notice it as well- among my peers. We're a young family as well. I oft get the evil eye for being too hard on my 5 and 2 yr old. Perhaps I wouldnt be quite as hard on them if this were a hunky dory world. However, the way I see it, This is as good as it gets in my kids lifetime.
If they do not learn to be hard now, they will not succeed later when things are much worse.
They must learn that life is not all fun and games -but still be allowed to be children. They must learn to be Tough- but still recieve gentle love. They must learn to be Patient- yet still enjoy the special surprises of life. They must be corrected when they err-not encouraged w/ a "thas ok baby, mommy fix it" - If not, How will they learn the lessons of self sufficiency and success?
They must be immediately obedient - for one day their life may depend on it. In all this I am careful to show and tell them that daddy loves them very very much. Most folks sont see that part - they just see psyco drill instructor dad.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

There is actually a book written on this subject called "The Fourth Turning" http://www.fourthturning.com/ It talks about how each generation act/behaves after a major societal crisis occurs.(in this cases WWII). He goes on to point out that the generation that fought WWII, whom Tom Brokaw has labeled the "Greatest Generation" were actually the party animals of the Roaring 20s. The writings of the times emulate very closely the way we talk about our kids of today.

There's hope!!!!! According to the book this generation will rise to the occasion when it happens, even though we look at them like a bunch of losers

A quick synopsis of the book is that in a standard lifetime of 80 years there are 4 twenty year generations. Each generation has classic characteristics that can be traced to the previous cycle and the one before that and so on.. A crisis, usually a war, occurs at the end of the 80 year cycle, which then repeats.

The last crisis began in 1929 culminating in WWII which started in 1936. We are approaching the next 80 year point, so the next crisis should be on our doorstep.

Accordingly 9-11-2001 was trigger event for this cycle so we could be approaching the "war" or 'crisis" soon.

sb

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Yeah, you don't want the cocks coming out on prom night.....
wait....
:shocked_ma:



(sorry, i couldn't resist)

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

This is good stuff.....your gonna have great young adults ....chickens ARE a reality. Most people don't know how to grow eggs :wink:

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

SB, I loved that book. Anyone concerned with survival should read it. I also agree that today's Kids will come through for us. Many of them are very elevated spiritual Beings. They will be left to pick up the pieces and move us into the next phase.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Bad Iptuous!!!
http://www.clipartof.com/images/emot...2_spanking.gif

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

I'm pleased to hear you have that blood in you too, good for you. You would be interested to read about Spartan women, they were totally different than the rest of women in ancient Greece. I will leave it there for now.

Now look back at what you wrote. If I were to deconstruct this I would say that you sound just like myself or my wife on this topic. And you reflexively caution against being too strict and breaking the spirit, phrases I hear from parents often.

I think this is a result of our cultural environment. I do not believe in abuse. But I do not believe in being controlled by culture. Instead I want to control it. Not my children, but yes, I want to control their cultural inputs. When I walk in the room and ask for attention I always want the TV turned OFF first. I will not talk over the Goddamned Idiot Box. We didnt have one for years then my wife got one, then a couple more years went by and she went out and got the satellite channels. I refuse to pack one thin dime for any TV crap I loathe it. (OK, I watch the cooking channel with her for fun and sometimes at the Gym I watch Squawk box on the financial channel. Otherwise NOTHING else including sports or news) If the kids want to watch some of these cartoons fine but I will not be ignored in favor of flickering images. Many of my friends have simply got rid of the televitz all together. They're smarter than us.

Neither is it abuse or overly controlling to demand obedience. Not demanding obedience means you will have a thousand fights more than necessary. WIth our son he is compliant but I went easy on the girl now I have a little 7 yr old Miss Make Her Own Judgments all the time. Like in the store last night, she says, I can get lemonade in the courtesy cup and it doesnt cost antything. I said no you cant and dont do it. She disobeyed me while I was ordering some deli stuff. On the way out I asked the clerk and he confirmed this. Why should I have to go get the friggin clerk to explain to my daughter that I am right? No thats a waste of my time and life, she should just obey. So all that "independent judgment" stuff (which my own mom is always feeding us) can sure go too far towards tolerating disobedience and wasting a lot of time and effort on silly stuff. I dont mind saying my son would have just obeyed and I would have been out of there without the time wasted, the embarassment, or the fussing afterwords. She said "I didnt know that was the rule about the courtesy cups just for water." I said "Did you know the rule that you are to Obey me? That would have answered your question and avoided the whole problem." But every time I turn around someone is excusing her disobedience, first it was me when she was even littler, and too cute, I could never even frown at her; but now it's mom or grandparents or my wife or some teacher all with their lax and inconsistent and permissive standards. I am no bully but I am the structure that the others will not provide. OK well to be fair my wife is just as much the disciplinarian as me in general but with occasional periodic lapses.

Anyhow this girl is stiff necked and obstinate and comes from a line of stiff necked obstinate women on both sides. So there is little possibility of breaking her spirit thats for sure.

Anyhow for the boys, caning was the discipline of Spartans. And they didnt give them very much food while growing up but forced them to forage for it. At their early teens they began their drill and military exercise. One of their "rites of passage" was the running competition at the festival of Artemis Orthia. You could look that up too. None of this broke them, but it did make them into the finest men of ancient Greece and ones that made Europe possible at Thermopylae. Else it would have been just another outpost of Asia.

If discipline is firm, consistent, predictable, and fair, it is not abuse. A little more strict or a little less strict is no the issue, what makes it bad is if it is unpredicatable or inconsistent or unfair. THose things vary by context and time and place and I couldnt begin to give pointers to other people, I just highlight these things as thoughts to consider..

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Little Ant, you are to be commended on your parenting skills. My hat is off to you.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Thank you very much for the compliment. Back in the past my fourteen year old self is cringing as I say any success I have as a parent I owe to my parents. I make my fair share of mistakes but I do think it will all come out just fine. Though the boys may make me gray yet.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Good for you little ant.
Our TV in the family room broke a few months back (actuall it didn't break, but I replaced the dopey cable box and tried to get its clicker to control the TV too and somehow turned the TV off and can't get it back on! The actual button is all pushed in and destroyed.) Anyway , they all wanted to know when we're getting a new TV. We're Not , I told them. We have a little 19 incher in the basement for when they can watch a movie or something and it's good enough. We never let them watch much anyway. they whined for a week or so, but now they don't even mention it or seem to miss it either. Especially since the weather is getting nicer now.
Putting the wife in order too :shocked_ma:.
Our fridge had a built in water dispenser/ice maker. Wife love her ice water.
One day we cam in from the back yard and there is water all over the kitchen floor. Sprung a leak somewhere (PS - thank god this didn't happen while we were away for the weekend or on vacation - there must have been 4 or 5 gallons of water on the floor, and still streaming out, just in the hour or so since we went outside - can you imagine a few days, the damage- note to self , from now on always shut the water off if going away, just in case).
I looked at the fridge but was unable to fix it, and there's nothing wrong with the fridge itself, just the water hookup fitting.
Anyway , the wife wants to know if we're gonna get a new fridge.
Nope I says, we're gonna get some ice cube trays.:D
Trying to live by the example we're setting for the kids.
Make do. learn to get by on what you have, and everything is not disposable.

PS - Seleukus, "Guff" - I love it. I ask my kids all the time "Excuse me, are you giving daddy guff?"
"No, sir." comes the reply (if they know what's good for them at least:wink:)

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You owe me a new keyboard. I just spat diet coke all over mine. :haha:

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

OMFG. This is the payoff for being a parent. OMG cherish this moment.

Your teens trust you. Victory!

Freaking awesome! Speaks volumes.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

.

"Marriage for a Spartan woman was an almost non-ceremonial event. The woman was abducted in the night by her suitor, her head was shaved, and she was made to wear men's clothing and lye on a straw pallet in the dark. From there on she would meet with her husband for almost entirely procreative reasons. If she was formerly a girl, she became a woman through marriage. Any Spartan man could abduct a wife, which led to a system of polyandry (many husbands, one wife or vice versa) in Sparta. When a child was born, the woman had little to do with the his/her upbringing, rather nurses handled the child's care (in addition, a female Spartan child was subject to the same tests of strength as a male child.)."


That sounds about right. Sounds like Spartan women were Amazon like and shared as much equality as possible for a woman till it came to these marital abductions.. LOL

For the record Greek men still have to be the some of the most sexist men on earth. The Greek American Mothers have helped their sons come a long way in recent decades , hopefully they have made some progress in Greece.

I still stand by what I say about there being a fine line between too much discipline and breaking a child's spirit.
Look forward to many more battles of the will with your Daughter. She sounds very bright, cute and spirited. I believe God has a hand in matching parents and children so they both can learn lessons in life they need.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Good job! They'll adjust, easier for them to do it NOW, then later. Our kids were deprived too :) So deprived they think we treat the animals better than them because OMG we buy them a bag of carrots or oatmeal cookies (they get goodies too) but hey, we don't have to buy the animals treats, we could be spending that money on their entitled butts, or so they think.

My son paid for his groceries and kicked in for utilities while he lived here and had to do chores too, then he and his girlfriend got a place together. He knew the drill and knew he was actually getting a good deal, but he had to pay for all his own stuff, he was a "man" or so he thought.

When it came time for my stepdaughter (we gave them almost a year after graduation to figure out what they were going to do) to kick in a token $200 a month towards groceries/rent/utilities, she decided she'd move out on her own and pay $500 per month (go figure) then she wouldn't have to do 2 hours worth of chores a week for the evil stepmother, it wasn't for me, it was for the whole family, but she never saw it that way.

The stepson, he's all hot under the collar now because he has the $200 a month token towards groceries/utilities coming up; and had the gall to ask if he still had to do chores if he paid $200 a month (that's 2 hours a week of chores, that's it).

I told him NO, he could PAY ME to do them on top of the $200...that shut him up. I suspect he too will be looking to roommate with someone here soon rather than pay us "the parents that are SUPPOSED to support them under all circumstances for free" $200 per month. It's really sad, we are cutting them a great deal...but they don't think so.

They both knew they could stay here for FREE if they went to college, the stepdaughter has the funds to go through two years...they would have been covered on medical, and no rent, no groceries, no bills other than their car expenses, while in college (they could have just continued working PT like they did in HS and paid their vehicle expenses); NOPE neither wanted to go to college, it's pathetic, really.

I played a family contact for TWO years waiting for an opening at this trucking firm for a entry-level diesel mechanic (earn while you learn) for my stepson; it finally OPENS up, my cousin calls me, offers my stepson the job, and you know what the stepson does, TURNS it down because he didn't want to work 8pm-8am 4 days a week 12 hours a day, yet doesn't want to go to college either, I was SICK and majorily fuming..you know why he turned it down, he has a girlfriend and wants to go no vacation with her this summer...and a family friend of the girlfriend's hired him to do tombstones, yeah tombstones, for a whopping $10 per hour, no benefits, none. He currently has no health insurance. So then I advise him to go to the local UE office and start checking the boards for apprenticeship jobs (which are DRYING UP fast), nope, couldn't be bothered.

Now I'm like screw it, let's see how long he holds onto his girl when she's going to college this year to get a 4-year teaching degree in Math, and he's still doing tombstones, let's see how attractive he is to her when she's done...so he gave up a career opportunity so he could play house, on our dime and time, we said NO, aint happening now son, sorry. You made your bed, now you are going to lie in it; I'm done helping him out in this aspect, he threw away 2 years of my work in one phone call, one phone call.

Acted like he was TOO good to do it, yet I put my foot down with my own natural son, and he had to work a factory job with no potential to go anywhere because he too skipped the college option. It wasn't until he was older that he realized his mistake, so too will the stepchildren.

You would have thought they would have learned from him, because he encouraged them to get a trade/skill not to end up like him; he did eventually go get a trade, but his girlfriend paid for it, we didn't, he had his chance, he blew it and had to suffer the consquences for 7 years before he figured it all out. Now it's the step kids' turn.

Now the stepson, despite all this, is a good kid overall, not into drugs/drinking, does work, always has (No other option if he wanted "things"); but this girlfriend really has played with his mind/emotions to the extent he's sacrificing himself for her "wants" at the moment. Can't tell him otherwise. The stepdaughter just wants her own "love" nest for her and her guy (knew she couldn't do it here).

So, they are very much at this age (19) into themselves and their own immediate gratification and pleasures v. reality, and we are seeing this, and we were tough on them, but if they are given the chance, even if they are going to be broke, they'll do anything to get away from the influence/control of Mom and Dad.

P.S. They didn't like our curfews either, they thought that they were 18 and they could just come and go as they liked since they graduated from highschool, yet not have to contribute towards their expenses or be considerate of our work schedules..when we dropped the bombs on them (after their grace period), i.e., you are not being given ADULT privleges until you behave consistently like an adult, well they revolted against that message.

But it's better they learn it early on before they lose a lot, rather than later when they can lose everything, so we shall let them fail, as fail they will, and then maybe they will come around to our way of thinking when they have no other choice. I expect all of them back at some point as this economy deterioates, and they know our rules. And the rent won't be cheap next time around. I know it sounds harsh, but you aren't doing them a favor handing them the fish, you have to force them to fish for themselves, literally force them, they have to feel the pain of their actions/choices...words just go in one ear and out the other.

Sorry for the long post, but you will be confronting this as they get into their later teens. They will feel so victimized and deprived by your actions, and whine like little babies, but stand FAST, eventually the whining subsides, but they will, they absolutely WILL hold it against you for awhile, especially when they see their friends getting all spoiled by their parents and handed everything on a silver platter, oh boy do they ever feel deprived then.

The good side, everyone thinks our kids are so "responsible". I silently laugh inside, yeah, uh huh, but don't give 'em an inch because if you do they will take a mile first chance they get; and the stepkids DO play the violin with outsiders...my natural son doesn't, he knows better, but I raised him, the stepkids I got at 14 from a very dysfunctional environment, plus I'm the evil stepmom, so it's a different situation.

All in all, we did a good job with them though, we at least taught them what it means to be responsible and compassionate, whether they follow through, is another matter, I have seen lots of setbacks/regressions, especially when we put their feet to the fire.

But unless we stretch them, we have no idea what they are capable of. Stretch the kids, just a little at a time, not all at once, keep upping the expectations a little at a time as they mature, not all at once, that's not fair. Parents that think they hit a magical age and are going to act maturely are in for a rude surprise, you have to train them as you go along, not drop the "be responsible" bomb on them all at once.

If you hand them everything, that is exactly what you are gonig to get, children with a sense of entitlement for doing nothing but being "special".
In the real world, they aren't going to be special to anyone but their girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse, whatever. Not to say not to love them and know you will do anything to help them if they stay on the right track, but don't give them the fish. Make them work for it, no better way to learn. Deprive them enough (well they THINK they are) so they'll go hunt for themselves, they will not HUNT if all their needs are being given to them.

I would bend over backwards for any of these kids and sacrifice things for them if they would show that drive and responsibility and be respectful and heading down a healthy path, but what I'm seeing right now out of the stepkids is a lot of selfishness, lack of real effort towards bettering themselves, a sense of entitlement that is misplaced, and foolishness (partially just their age) so I can't condone or support those decisions/actions and won't (my husband, their natural father doesn't either, so it's good we are on the same page).

So, we are the EVIL ones. Always works that way until they get a lot older and realize you were really showing them love by not enabling them to be a loser/parasite.

IF we die tomorrow, I want all these kids to have a healthy dose of street smarts, and NO sense of entitlement whatsoever, it's the only way they will survive and be their own persons someday standing on their own two feet with a sense of pride in themselves and accomplishments.

Sorry you got me going with your post and I'm on one of my rolls today :)
*Hit close to home.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Silverstone,

It is tough, especially when they do things to shoot themselves in the foot. But learning a lesson via School of Hard Knocks will pay dividends over time.
I think the best thing I ever did was to NOT be my kid's best friend. My son is so tired of hearing, " I'm your parent, not your friend. You don't have to like me but you'd better respect me."

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

thanks she sure is cute and willful. like my wife for sure. imagine that!

remember modern greece was affected by hundreds of years of turkish-islamic occupation so that explains a lot of the more retrograde attitudes towards women.

I am wondering what the kids are supposed to do after the prom? Thanks God I dont have to deal with that problem yet.

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Life is too short not to blast the AC in South Florida......

Re: The kids are getting soft
 

Yep, hards times are good for people.